Response 2 to Kathy

Kathy said--"I don't worry about measuring the impact. I figure anything I do is better than nothing and each thing I do is bound to have a ripple effect."

Response--I beleive in that ripple effect too. My question is whether we need to: worry about the impact; or be curious about uncertainty?

Kathy said--"Either way, we are moving forward. The trick is to not threaten anyone so that they want to lash back or become obstinate. That's why it's so important to not have advocates copt a "Holier Than Tho" attitude. You know the type I mean. We don't need to preach to the choir and we shouldn't be "preaching" at all. The "trick" is to find the right hook for those in the second group. Will it save them money?  Will it make them money? Will it save their health?  Whatever it takes.  Once they are on the path, they won't turn back."

Response--I agree that we are moving forward, I worry that we lack any way of knowing what pace we need to avoid collapse. This leads us to Kathy's next point...

Kathy said--"I'm reminded of fractal geometry.  I think that each of us is a base of a fractal and that each time we reach out to let people know, or design something that is sustainable and get the message out there, it starts the fractal growing. Soon it's branching out all over the place."

Response--What a great concept, I know little about fractals. If I joined a religous group I would only hope that the people around me were optimistic fractals. This gives me hope. I share your faith. This will help us to accelerate when we get to the hills.

Kathy said--"The idea in C2C is a tough one for us to embrace but it's a noble goal. I think we will gradually approach it. We have to. We shouldn't hope for a global avian flu virus or more AIDS to solve the problem.  I don't mean you and me, but there are those out there that think that way.  Of course they wouldn't want to die themselves, no, that's for "those" people."

Response--(Whta is C2C?) My interpretation is that (to use a medical analogy) Kathy sees the fractal as an antibody, white blood cells with many levels of enzemes that are sensing threats and giving permission to the good guys (with out preacing) to fight the avian flu. In this analogy I see myself being heard asking the question "have you ever heard of AIDS? And the answer is "I am not going to worry about it as long as I can fight the flu." Rick is saying that if the warning stirs fear it is not going to be productive. We need to use love.

I say, fear is not bad, all emotions have their place, fear is a stage in a process that awakens us to threats. I say there is a difference between preaching and being intellectually curious. Rick and Kathy have helped me to understand the reactions that can be triggered though the exploration of system collapse and I am grateful for that. Rick and Kathy have also helped me to clarify a critical issue which is the issue of avoidance. If we do everything we can but it turns out to be not enough, is the problem that we have avoided the real issue or is it simply OK because we were fully engaged and left accepting of our limitations and celbrating our effort and committment? If we reaise fears instead of inspiring others to join us in our work and products, are we left handicaped in our success even if we manage to survive with out a major collapse? I don't know the answers to these questions but I am going to remain curious about them as I continmue to blog.

Thank you Kath, thanks Rick.--------==bruc